Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search spams

Negedrazzil · Post by **Negedrazzil** » 2003-01-19 10:09

I noticed that DC++ .22 has that handy new feature that reports when someone search spams the hub. Handy for kicking out people who flood the server with searches, but the only flaw is that when you have a very long download list and "automatically find new sources" is on, you end up automatically search spamming the hub yourself. I know this for a fact because I've been banned twice by bots from hubs and they both said it was for search spamming.

Maybe a search rate control is something to consider for .23, or a hardwired limiter on how many searches per second can be made (auto or by user)?

Drazzil

Erroneus · Post by **Erroneus** » 2003-01-19 10:59

Great idea, tyou should be able to set it manually from the settings dialog, where you control the amount of seconds.

ted · Post by **ted** » 2003-01-19 19:49

I consider this feature to be very useful, actually a necessary complement for the automatic search for new sources.

My proposal is to have a vote about this, but first we have to find what it would mean in practice: Simple enough and efficient enough. To propose what should be default limit one must know what is a standard/typical/default frequency triggering the search spam alert in the hubs!

I could think of something like:

When "automatically find new sources" is checked, there should be a limit, which is BY DEFAULT conservative, i.e. likely not trigger the spam alert. The user should be able to change the value, but for folks who do not know what to configure it should be slow enough frequency to not provoke any banning in most cases. The sporty (and maybe ignorant...) individuals could tune the value until their ass gets burned, if they so prefer....

RobbeZ · Post by **RobbeZ** » 2003-01-19 23:42

Negedrazzil wrote:I noticed that DC++ .22 has that handy new feature that reports when someone search spams the hub. Handy for kicking out people who flood the server with searches, but the only flaw is that when you have a very long download list and "automatically find new sources" is on, you end up automatically search spamming the hub yourself. I know this for a fact because I've been banned twice by bots from hubs and they both said it was for search spamming.

Maybe a search rate control is something to consider for .23, or a hardwired limiter on how many searches per second can be made (auto or by user)?

Drazzil

I never experienced that, but if it can prevent this from happening
I Sure do agree, that it's needed

Negedrazzil · Post by **Negedrazzil** » 2003-01-21 19:41

I suppose we can ask around at hubs as to what their SearchSpam rate is, although what I was also referring to is the built-in search spam detector in Direct Connect. You shouldn't be able to search faster than that, because otherwise you'll be setting off every copy of DC++ in the hub every time you search for new sources...

It definitly should be variable because acceptable rates vary from hub to hub. I know of one that automatically drops searches if they're performed within 10 seconds of eachother.

Jw

ivulfusbar · Post by **ivulfusbar** » 2003-01-21 20:19

now i'm going to speak up about something i should speak up about because i haven't checked how its implimented in dc++, but what the heck, here we go.

This searchlimit should be different passive and active clients. active clients should be able to search more often than passive. What is a good limit? i don't know? what do you think?

been-to-busy-writing-a-book-to-post-things-in-this-forum-lately-ly'ers

FRANKE · Post by **FRANKE** » 2003-01-21 21:06

3 to 5 seconds is my bed

FRANKE · Post by **FRANKE** » 2003-01-21 21:07

bed = bid

argh i need to be able to edit my posts

ender · Post by **ender** » 2003-01-21 21:19

ivulfusbar wrote:This searchlimit should be different passive and active clients. active clients should be able to search more often than passive. What is a good limit? i don't know? what do you think?

I'm ignoring the search requests in my hub if the client is sending more than 1 active search per 0.5 seconds or more than 1 passive search in 3 seconds, but that's easy to change...

Gadget · Post by **Gadget** » 2003-01-22 00:20

Usually those search spams occurs when there had been some kind of communication problems... All searchs requests client sent in i.e. one minute end up to hub or another client in short time because of some kind of timeout.

NattensQje · Post by **NattensQje** » 2003-01-25 14:01

Negedrazzil wrote:I noticed that DC++ .22 has that handy new feature that reports when someone search spams the hub.

Is it new?

Nev · Post by **Nev** » 2003-01-25 20:11

nmdc have a 10 sec limit on searches. I think 5 secs for active and 15 for passive are more suitable, hence why I have coded my hub this way.

At first I was all for faster and more often searches, but once I saw how much bandwidth that are spent on searches, I hesitate....

A nifty feature would be for 'the special case' , which is in practice the normal case; An extention to dc++ which would allow dc++ to signal 'rar-archive-folder-with-sfv'. This would allow for dc++ to search for alternates on one file and get the whole dist.

How? I don't know.......

sarf · Post by **sarf** » 2003-01-25 23:43

NattensQje wrote:
Negedrazzil wrote:I noticed that DC++ .22 has that handy new feature that reports when someone search spams the hub.

Is it new?

No, it is not new. It's been in the program for quite a while (since 0.163 I *think* - but I'm not 100% sure).

In my new betas of DC++k I've added the ability for the user to specify how often (in milliseconds) the program is allowed to search. I've retrofitted the search window and the autosearch to follow and understand this limit. It is then up to the user to choose a suitable period of time. I think that this way everyone gets what they want, but you could make a special case, such as setting the limit to -1 and thus defaulting the period to, say, five seconds for an active user and ten seconds for a passive one. The numbers I've chosen are completely from the top of my head, of course.

Sarf.
---
Lions: 5, Christians: 0.

splunger · Post by **splunger** » 2003-02-16 16:40

Can anyone explain how the "Automatically search for alternative download locations" functionality works? For example, does it go through the download list and the search through the hubs you are on? Is the a priority to the searches?

By the way, I have been trying to figure out a minimum search gap so that the Auto Search and manual searches don't overlap too badly and get me banned.

I think if a search is done and left running it will overlap an Auto Search. Are manual searches that are left to run, only run once per hub? What if new hubs are joined during a search? Do those hubs get searched subsequently?

I find that manual searches get me results and I'd like to understand how it and Auto Search work together better.

sarf · Post by **sarf** » 2003-02-16 21:35

splunger wrote:Can anyone explain how the "Automatically search for alternative download locations" functionality works? For example, does it go through the download list and the search through the hubs you are on? Is the a priority to the searches?

"Auto search for more sources" (my name) works by going through your filelist a bit at a time and searching for a file once every minute (I think). It keeps a list of 30 (last time I checked) searches in its "memory". When one or more new sources are found the file is removed from the search list.

Every search - no matter what type of search it is - is broadcasted to every hub.

When you press the "Search"-button in the Search window DC++ sends a search command to all hubs that it is connected to at that moment. AFAIK, it does not send any more searches to the hub unless you resend the search command.

splunger wrote:I think if a search is done and left running it will overlap an Auto Search.

Wrong. What may happen is that if you are unlucky, your "auto search" will kick in just before or after you have sent another search. This is rather unlikely but it is possible.

splunger wrote:Are manual searches that are left to run, only run once per hub?

Yes.

splunger wrote:What if new hubs are joined during a search? Do those hubs get searched subsequently?

Nope. All hubs that the DC++ client is connected to at the moment the search method is invoked are sent a search-command.

splunger wrote:I find that manual searches get me results and I'd like to understand how it and Auto Search work together better.

Well, I hope this has given you a slight idea of what is happening "behind the scenes".

Sarf
---
That which does not kill me had better run pretty damn fast.

Post by **GargoyleMT** » 2003-02-17 00:55

sarf wrote:In my new betas of DC++k I've added the ability for the user to specify how often (in milliseconds) the program is allowed to search.

This feature seems to already exist in Opera's DC. I'm not sure if your implementation is more flexible, but it sounds like it. And it's a useful feature that all DC++ users can benefit from, not just oDC users. :-)

DC++

Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search spams

Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search spams

yup

Re: Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search s

Re: Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search s

Re: Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search s

Re: Find New Sources needs rate control - It causes search s

Who is online